<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss' xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631973587192356299</id><updated>2011-04-22T05:28:37.998+01:00</updated><category term='breastfeeding'/><title type='text'>The Devils Alternatives</title><subtitle type='html'></subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://thedevilsalternatives.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/7631973587192356299/posts/default?max-results=100'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://thedevilsalternatives.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><author><name>David</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15995603887339329990</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>1</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>100</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631973587192356299.post-6893812688796378549</id><published>2008-07-14T17:10:00.028+01:00</published><updated>2008-07-20T12:47:13.248+01:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='breastfeeding'/><title type='text'>Breastfeeding is NOT illegal !</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;In the many debates over recent months the same fallacies have been coming up time and time again, even from prominent people in the breastfeeding community who should know better. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;The fallacies are that the forthcoming Single Equality Act will legalise breastfeeding in public, that Scotland has already passed legislation making breastfeeding legal, and that breastfeeding is illegal in the rest of the UK under indecency and public order laws. These inaccuracies are now so ingrained they have been recently quoted as fact in national news reports (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/06/16/mums-win-the-legal-right-to-breastfeed-anywhere-89520-20609029/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Daily Mirror&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;, and until the story was pulled when the errors were pointed out to them [edit 20/7/08 'and replaced with a story substantially rewritten with all references to illegality removed'], even the BBC). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;I'll do these in reverse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Firstly breastfeeding in public is perfectly legal in England and Wales. The Indecency Act is an arcane piece of legislation dating back to Victorian times. One clause held it to be indecent to exhibit your person in public. A famous test case defined what this meant. Exhibiting your person was a Victorian euphemism for flashing [edit 20/7/08 'male public exhibitionism' - use of the term for accidental or deliberate exposure of breasts is very recent ]. So women were held to be incapable of indecency under this clause as they didn't have a 'person' to exhibit!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://bp2.blogger.com/_ACHOX-DqE-Q/SHuGnChB82I/AAAAAAAAAAU/XOn3FYcShFE/s1600-h/Venus_de_Milo_Louvre_Ma399_n4%2520Wikipedia.jpg"&gt;&lt;img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5222916198114653026" style="FLOAT: right; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px 10px; CURSOR: hand" alt="" src="http://bp2.blogger.com/_ACHOX-DqE-Q/SHuGnChB82I/AAAAAAAAAAU/XOn3FYcShFE/s200/Venus_de_Milo_Louvre_Ma399_n4%2520Wikipedia.jpg" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div align="right"&gt;&lt;a href="http://bp0.blogger.com/_ACHOX-DqE-Q/SHuF7oKRQ9I/AAAAAAAAAAM/iPPSInOFub0/s1600-h/florence54.jpg"&gt;&lt;img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5222915452305490898" style="FLOAT: left; MARGIN: 0px 10px 10px 0px; CURSOR: hand" alt="" src="http://bp0.blogger.com/_ACHOX-DqE-Q/SHuF7oKRQ9I/AAAAAAAAAAM/iPPSInOFub0/s200/florence54.jpg" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt; This lady is legal in public&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This gentleman is highly illegal in public!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;So any prosecutions would have to be attempted under another clause making it indecent to exhibit 'lewd and lascivious behaviour' ! In the theatre until the 1960's this was held to only apply in certain circumstances. This was the famous 'if it moves it's rude' rule that the Windmill theatre exploited. As long as their girls were absolutely stationary they were fine. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;There has never been any indication from the Government, police, courts or any official body that under any circumstances would breastfeeding in public be regarded as 'lewd and lascivious' behavior. There has never been any arrest, let alone trial or conviction, and any decent lawyer would get this laughed out of court instantly by showing the sexual inadequacies of those prosecuting if they suggested that they found breastfeeding 'lewd'. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;To repeat - merely showing a naked breast, with or without a naked nipple, is &lt;strong&gt;never&lt;/strong&gt; indecent. The indecency laws do not and never have applied, and any suggestion that they do is helping the opponents of breastfeeding discourage public breastfeeding. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;As for conduct liable to cause a breach of the peace, there has been only one recent arrest [edit 20/7/08 : I must correct this, 'threat of arrest' - many reports on web do not reflect even this, although my personal recollection from live reports at the time differs, memory is not infallible! ], in Norfolk, and the Chief Constable personally apologised. To establish conduct liable to cause a breach of the peace you have to show &lt;strong&gt;why&lt;/strong&gt; it will cause a breach of the peace. The Association of Chief Constables and the Crown Prosecution Service have unofficially let it be known that there are no circumstances that would ordinarily merit arrest and prosecution. You would have to be doing something else as well! Breastfeeding topless whilst blind drunk and waving a baseball bat would probably do it! But we are talking that level of aggravation. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Unfortunately most policemen are not highly trained in negotiating outcomes to difficult situations, and if faced with people objecting to breastfeeding in public will take the easy way out and ask the breastfeeding mother to stop. Policemen don't want the correct solution, they want the fast and easy solution. So you may be legal, but still encounter problems. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Which neatly brings us to Scotland. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Scotland did not pass a law legalising breastfeeding. Breastfeeding, as in England and Wales, was never illegal! &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;So what did Scotland do? They passed a law making the harassment or stopping of feeding a baby (up to two years) illegal. This took any ambiguity away and let policemen know that the appropriate course of action was arresting the other party and supporting the breastfeeding mother as a victim of a crime!!! Hurrah!  [&lt;a href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2005/asp_20050001_en_1"&gt;Breastfeeding etc. (Scotland) Act 2005&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;This was much more important than legalising the already legal. This was a massive blow against lechers, the chronically socially conservative and the outright stupid. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;So of course the Single Equality Act will bring in the same protection in England. Oh, I wish. It certainly will not legalise breastfeeding in public, it is already legal. So what will it do? &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Well at the moment &lt;strong&gt;nobody&lt;/strong&gt; actually knows outside a select few drafting the bill. There has been an 'official rumour'. Which has the merit of testing the waters, being deniable later, and committing the government to nothing. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;So far the government said that they would have draft legislation in the Green Paper (it wasn't there), as part of the discussion papers sent out for consultation (completely missing), and as part of the papers giving the final drafts of the act so far released (ah, you guessed! - conspicuous by its absence). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;We'll have to make do with the official rumour (at a closed press conference, unattributable). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;This is that under the Sex Discrimination clauses of the bill, a clause will make it an offence to stop feeding of a baby under six months, in an establishment where food is normally served. For this privilege a mother will be able to bring a sex discrimination case, leading to cash compensation. By the time that is settled through tribunals and courts, if a mother has the time and money to bring the case (legal aid?- not in this universe), then the child will be well established in school. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Actual positive impact is practically zero. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Unfortunately following the law of unintended consequences the negative impact could be immense. By defining where it is unlawful to stop a woman breastfeeding in such a narrow way, it implies that it &lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt; lawful to stop a woman breastfeeding elsewhere. There are also problems such as defences that the offender reasonably thought that the baby was over 6 months; as rumoured the problems of mothers and fathers bottle feeding, as only breastfeeding has been specifically mentioned as being in any way protected so far; feeding areas?, it is a lawyers nightmare.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Let us be absolutely clear. Nothing in the Single Equality Act as reported will make breastfeeding illegal anywhere, but what it may be doing is making it legal to request a parent or caregiver feeding a baby to stop and do it elsewhere, except in very narrowly defined circumstances, for which the penalties are silly. Far from helping breastfeeding it may well set it back 50 years.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;There are things you can do about this if you want to. See &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://one-of-those-women.blogspot.com/2008/06/protect-my-baby-protect-me.html"&gt;Morgan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://one-of-those-women.blogspot.com/2008/06/protect-my-baby-protect-me.html"&gt; Gallagher&lt;/a&gt;'s excellent blog for instance. I can guarantee that the storm of protest so far building, will rise to a hurricane as soon as the exact details are confirmed (presuming the government doesn't chicken, and decide 'to include it in a future act').&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;color:#ffffff;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;But as an immediate practical act, whenever you hear anybody claim that breastfeeding in England and Wales is illegal in public, stomp on it. It is not true, but is one of those ugly lies that has developed a life of its own. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:0;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:0;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:0;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:0;"&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/7631973587192356299-6893812688796378549?l=thedevilsalternatives.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://thedevilsalternatives.blogspot.com/feeds/6893812688796378549/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7631973587192356299&amp;postID=6893812688796378549' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/7631973587192356299/posts/default/6893812688796378549'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/7631973587192356299/posts/default/6893812688796378549'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://thedevilsalternatives.blogspot.com/2008/07/breastfeeding-is-not-illegal.html' title='Breastfeeding is NOT illegal !'/><author><name>David</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15995603887339329990</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://bp2.blogger.com/_ACHOX-DqE-Q/SHuGnChB82I/AAAAAAAAAAU/XOn3FYcShFE/s72-c/Venus_de_Milo_Louvre_Ma399_n4%2520Wikipedia.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry></feed>
